Kim Davis, and the rude awakening

The last year has been a fascinating, albeit entertaining one for me with regards to the recent LGBT legislation, Supreme Court rulings, and subsequent reactions from the Evangelical Christian community of which I am a participant.

What’s particularly humorous to me, is the idea that the “c”hurch in America thinks this is a Christian country. This idea that there’s a map room in heaven, and Christ at one point allocated America like some type of voting line re-districting as His personal land of “Thou Shalt Not’s”. While there are a boat load of self-professing Christians living here, they’ve forgotten something the Big Guy told us last time He was here.

This is not our home. (Disclaimer – if you don’t believe what I believe, most of what’s written here will sound crazy. But it’s okay.)

The earliest Christians knew this. If we look at what their “society” looked like, it was more like a commune, and less like what most American Christians are living today. Graphically, here’s what the church right after Jesus looked like:

The early church was called to cluster together around each other in a familial paradigm shift, and to live respectfully with unbelievers around them

This is how American Christians think it’s supposed to look, and work:

9-9-2015 10-53-57 AM

I love America. I think it’s a great place. I do think it’s the greatest country in the world – and I fully understand that there’s a lot of things wrong here that we don’t do as well as some others. In terms of a sum total though, you could do a lot worse. But as a Christian (“little Christ” in the greek) I think of America more like my friend Nunzio thinks of North Carolina. Nunzio makes my Pizza at his restaurant, “Cicciones” in Lewisville NC. He likes it here, but he’s always talking about his house in Naples. He loves it there. He loves the water, the way the sun sets in the evenings. He talks about it like he’s always living there in his mind, and just happens to find himself here, in Forsyth County North Carolina for the time being. He doesn’t expect people in Lewisville to follow Napolitan culture. He doesn’t expect people to drive on the left side of the road. He doesn’t expect people here, well, he doesn’t expect much of anything.

If you’ve never been to Naples, he would say – you just don’t know. Being around him though makes me want to go where he goes, and see what he’s seen.

Lately, the news has been abuzz with stories about Kim Davis. She’s a clerk in Kentucky who refused to issue court certificates of marriage to gay couples, citing religious freedom as her foundation for denial.

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She walked out of the jail yesterday to the tune, “Eye of the Tiger”, and I almost puked.

When asked about paying taxes, Jesus told the people asking him whose picture was on the coin. They answered, “Ceaser’s”. Jesus then said to “render unto Caeser what was Caeser’s”.  Translation: You’re living in someone else’s home right now. Play by the rules.

Jesus also said, “Jesus replied, “Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.”. He was communicating to people that wanted to follow him as Messiah, that living here as a Christian was no picnic.

In the northern states of India – if you accept Christ and follow him, you lose your benefits as a villager. You no longer receive monies sent to the village by the government. Your family disowns you, and you’re literally “out of the will”. You’re ostrocized.

In China, if you accept Christ – you can’t meet in a church. You have to secretly meet in your homes. If you’re caught meeting in your home, and “having church”, you go to jail. If you own a bible, you’re arrested and go to jail.

In Syria, and Iraq, Christians are being crucified. And burned alive. And their heads are cut off. They’re forced out of their villages into the surrounding hills, and “starved out” until they either die, or convert. Their wives taken, sold, or raped.

Boko Haram soldiers storm Christian areas going from home to home in Northern Africa, demanding that every man convert to Islam. Those who refuse are shot dead on the spot. Their wives are raped, and impregnated purposefully.

Ergo- I’m fascinated by someone who is an official representative of the United States Government not resigning from her position, when asked to give licenses to gay couples. It’s sort of like complaining someone gave you regular Coke, instead of Diet, and making a huge scene at an Applebees.

I’m fascinated when someone who bakes cakes for a living in a secular business environment is surprised someone asked them to stand by the anti-discrimination laws they agreed to obey when they opened a business.  We’re told in the New Testament,

“”Be wise in the way you act toward outsiders; make the most of every opportunity. 6 Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone,” Col. 4:5-6. (NIV)

The words, “Be Wise”, literally translate into, “Buy the time”. In essence, when you interact with people who don’t believe Jesus was Messiah, you treat you’re time with them as a special opportunity that you would have paid money for. A chance to communicate what? Grace. A chance to share a testimony with someone. Nowhere does Paul say we’re going to be carried around on people’s shoulders for believing what we believe. Remember – Paul was in jail when he wrote what he wrote. In jail for believing Jesus was the son of God.

What if someone said, “I get to talk to gay people who don’t believe in Jesus…people will literally walk in off the street to buy a cake…people who don’t know Jesus. And for the price of some flour and sugar, I get to share my testimony with them. Share the good news of Christ. Pray for them, or even maybe with them.”

What if Davis had said, “There are these people who come in to me for a marriage certificate. How can I communicate grace to people that don’t know Messiah yet in the 15 minutes I have with them? If prayer works the way Jesus says it does…if everything that happens to me is prepared beforehand, maybe I can write their names down and pray each night, or during my break. ”

We don’t get demerits from Christ for baking cakes for gay people. We don’t get points off for issuing marriage certificates to LGBT couples. We’re told there is “no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”.

Paul said that he “became all things to all people” so that they might hear the good news (gospel) of Jesus. Every opportunity was an opportunity to be “salt and light” with people who haven’t accepted Christ yet (again, if this sounds crazy to you, it’s okay – I get it).

As soon as we figure out we’re the little circle, surrounded in a bigger circle…like people in China, Africa, Syria, hell….anywhere and everywhere else have figured out – people like Kim Davis are going to make it harder to have those conversations. If you see someone like that, remember one other thing Jesus said,

Not all who sound religious are really godly people. They may refer to me as ‘Lord,’ but still won’t get to heaven. For the decisive question is whether they obey my Father in heaven. 22 At the Judgment many will tell me, ‘Lord, Lord, we told others about you and used your name to cast out demons and to do many other great miracles.’ 23 But I will reply, ‘You have never been mine. Go away, for your deeds are evil.’”

I think, if Paul was making tents (as he was known to do) he wouldn’t turn someone away in Greece for being gay. But people who came to Paul to make tents for them knew he was a flaming Jesus freak.  You have to wonder – why did they do that? We’re missing an awesome opportunity to share our story, and definitely not “buying the time”.

Please don’t celebrate Ms. Davis’ release. Let it serve as a reminder that Jesus went back to prepare a place for us, and that He’s coming back soon to show us what a God equipped with carpentry skills can accomplish in 2,000+ years.  Make a cake. Or a pizza. Or fill out a form. Be Jesus. America isn’t heaven (although Costner almost convinced me Iowa was).

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32 Responses to Kim Davis, and the rude awakening

  1. Lorna Elaine says:

    Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts. I am deeply distraught by the heartlessness of our Christian culture as it has slowly descended into Pharisaical behaviors due to the hijacking by the religious right. I was once a member of the RR when I was a new Believer and I think I was always at war with the world, trying to make it more friendly for me to live in. I was the judgmental shopping cart inspector stuck behind the obese or those using food stamps. It was the furthest thing from what Christ modeled but my church was encouraging it. I have broken free and tried to fill my words, my eyes, and my actions with love. And not the kind of love that Kim Davis hides behind – that she is loving people by closing doors in their face. But a pure love that acknowledges that God is in control of their lives and I am to be His servant. Life is deeper and more beautiful now.

    • Lorna , what is The Gospel and what is the reason for your hope?

      • mlydick1 says:

        Gilbert,

        How many people have you given shelter to, in the last 12 months?
        How many people have you given aid to – in the form of food, or water?
        How many undesirable people have you invited into your home?
        How many people have you visited in jail, Gilbert, in the last year?

        “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry, and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me into your home. 36 I was naked, and you gave me clothing. I was sick, and you cared for me. I was in prison, and you visited me.’

        37 “Then these righteous ones will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry and feed you? Or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 Or a stranger and show you hospitality? Or naked and give you clothing? 39 When did we ever see you sick or in prison and visit you?’

        40 “And the King will say, ‘I tell you the truth, when you did it to one of the least of these my brothers and sisters,[c] you were doing it to me!’

        41 “Then the King will turn to those on the left and say, ‘Away with you, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his demons.[d] 42 For I was hungry, and you didn’t feed me. I was thirsty, and you didn’t give me a drink. 43 I was a stranger, and you didn’t invite me into your home. I was naked, and you didn’t give me clothing. I was sick and in prison, and you didn’t visit me.’

        He’s reconciled EVERYONE Gilbert. Our call is not to spread the message of condemnation – but to spread the message of reconciliation. He’s already done it. You can’t make someone “more-gay”.

      • Dee WW says:

        Good works are things we should do, mlydick1, when we are saved, but are not what saves us. Nowhere did Gilbert say anything to the contrary – not making a great of sense out of your response.

      • mlydick1 says:

        Gilbert’s response was devoid of mercy. His position that our interaction with a sinful world somehow endorses sinful behavior is biblically inaccurate. I would wager that were we to examine the lives of the people Gilbert interacts with at work – that he, or his company – or his colleagues that he supports – is in someway supporting a sinful behavior.

    • Rusty Wood says:

      the church is in blasphemy.we do not condone sin, period.

      • mlydick1 says:

        The church was in blasphemy long before this was an issue:

        Quote: “Divorce rates among Evangelical and Fundamentalist Christians t(were) the highest in the country since before someone even imagined that Gays and Lesbians should be allowed the same right to marry as other people…Those statistics came, by the way, from a Evangelical Christian research institute, the Barna Group, in the year 2000:

        Denomination (in order of decreasing divorce rate)
        Non-denominational** 34%
        Baptists 29%
        Mainline Protestants 25%
        Mormons 24%
        Catholics 21%
        Lutherans 21%

        Barna’s results verified findings of earlier polls: that conservative Protestant Christians, on average, have the highest divorce rate, while mainline Christians have a much lower rate. They found some new information as well: that atheists and agnostics have the lowest divorce rate of all. George Barna commented that the results raise “questions regarding the effectiveness of how churches minister to families.” The data challenge “the idea that churches provide truly practical and life-changing support for marriage.” […]

        The data showed that the highest divorce rates were found in the Bible Belt.* “Tennessee, Arkansas, Alabama and Oklahoma round out the Top Five in frequency of divorce…the divorce rates in these conservative states are roughly 50 percent above the national average” of 4.2/1000 people.

        * Note: Divorce rates were still higher in the Bible Belt as of 2009 according to a US Census report

  2. tkgrands says:

    I have been uneasy over the last days, as the scenes played out by Ms. Davis were broadcast. One huge point that God has always insisted on, is that we not judge, it is not our place. We are to love. I agree with everything you wrote and hope that I can be filled to the brim and overflowing with grace toward all. Thank you

  3. Lili says:

    Wow i loved reading this!!! The only think i do not agree with is the “little Christ” thing, but will not go there..anyway i have been so torn in how we should act in a situation like this knowing that this type of living (homosexuality) is not accepted in the Bible, however, I know all that verses stated here and if i am correct the only thing we should not do is bow down to idols…Jesus spoke to sinners, and dined with them….i see no difference here…she could have witnessed to them and even given them her explanation why she did not want to give them a license, at least they would have heard the word!!! The same with these cake bakers…it is their business and if is their right to explain why in love they do not agree with what they are doing…but business is business and Jesus was about the Father’s business, not about denying others their rights…She had so many ways to witness in love to these two fellas…It is so sad the way this went down and i believe an embarrassment to our precious Lord…anyway terrific article, right to the point and very understandable. May you be blessed..

    • mlydick1 says:

      Thanks Lili – the literal definition of the word “Christian” in the greek is “little-Christ”. Not even something we can disagree about. Unless your Bill Clinton, with the whole, “what is the definition of the word is?” Thanks for reading!

  4. I am a nurse,and a Christian. I don’t believe in abortion, but do not attempt to push my belief on other’s. So in you way of thinking, if asked to participate in an abortion I should do it because it would give me the opportunity to witness to the female? Of course I would never participate in an abortion, just interested in your slant on this.

    • mlydick1 says:

      Hey Linda,

      Thanks for your thought process. It’s interesting to see people wrestle with the situation – and where they go with the line of reasoning they came to the conversation with.

      No. I’m not asking you to participate in abortions. Those types of arguments are known in debate team circles as “ad infinitum” arguments. So, if you don’t mind G.M.O. foods, than you’re for poisoning villages in Africa – right?. If you don’t support PETA, you’re saying it’s okay to slaughter 10,000 whales with an M16 rifle? Don’t you, ISN’T THAT WHAT YOU’RE SAYING!!!! No- I’m not saying that at all.

      I’m saying that the people who bake cakes right now – are selling cakes to unsaved couples who are living together, and fornicating (ssssshhh!!!) or having sex before marriage. They’re selling cakes to couples where one spouse is already cheating on the other. They’re selling cakes to people who are sinning so fast, they could write a best selling novel on how to get to Hell as quickly as possible. But when the gay couple walks in – they can’t hide that sin as well as the other sinners. They don’t get a cake.

      I’m saying that Kim Davis handed wedding licenses to thousands of people in the past – who were equally culpable in their levels of sin, and depravity. She probably unknowingly issued licenses to transgender couples who had surgically undergone their transformation, and appeared to be a “straight” couple. But when the gay couple walked in- they couldn’t “hide” their sin as well as the other 15,936 people.

      I heard an atheist say once, “If you know – if you truly believe in your heart that you have the key to eternal life, and you know the secret to eternal life in heaven – versus going to hell….and you don’t try to tell me, you must hate me. You must hate me, because that’s paramount to seeing the bus coming down the road I’m trying to cross, and not attempting to push me out of the way”. So when you say, “….but do not attempt to push my belief on others”, it’s confusing to me. “Go and make disciples in all nations” wasn’t a suggestion – it was a command, right? When you tell your kids to clean their rooms – they don’t come back and say, “Hey, I had a study with my other friends about what it means to clean my room”. Nope.

      I’m saying the early church was a mini-society. There was an instance where one new convert was an actor. At the time – a detestable career according to Christian leaders. The word “actor” means “hypocrite” in the Greek. But the early church leaders took up a collection. They got him out of acting. They paid what would have been his salary – because accepting Christ for him meant having no income or ability to earn a living. Other churches took up a collection – to keep him from opening an “acting school” (according to the transcripts on the letters). Ms. Davis could have resigned. And her church could have helped provide for her. She had a path out, and she didn’t take it. She went to jail with the understanding that she shouldn’t have to stop working at HER JOB because all these gay queers wanna get ‘murried. This is the spirit of the argument.

      She was already endorsing sinful behavior, with straight couples. She never once asked anyone else, ever, to pass a sin test. Nor did any of the bakers. They could have been selling cupcakes to serial killers. But serial killers don’t hold hands with other guys in the lobby, so what’s a baker to do?

      If the hospital you worked at was taken over by Planned Parenthood – and they kept 99% of what they were already doing at your hospital in place, but you knew that room at the end of the hall on floor 3 was conducting abortions – and you were in no way involved….what would you do?

      I look at the people who made the biggest difference in history for Christ – and they didn’t “stay away” from the sinners. They were on the front lines – touching dirty Samaritans, eating alongside of hookers and sluts and mentally ill people. What if you were a nurse in that hallway of that hospital – praying for God to change the hearts of just 1 girl while you were there? What if you witnessed 100,000 abortions – but because of something you said – or the way you looked at one girl – she changed her mind and went home and the baby didn’t die…..

      Would God hold you responsible for the 99,999 babies, or thank you for helping him save the 1?

  5. Grace Williams says:

    Is this article the kind of support we can expect from fellow Christians if we face a crisis of conscience? While it is true that if we have Christ we have everything, I would hope for a little support from His body!

  6. and so as your children , family and community see that it does not make any difference to you about that sin, or any sin for that matter, they will also be deceived by it and emboldened to fall under it’s bondage.. You become no longer salty and are no longer a light. You will be trampled under foot. If you would be willing to bake a wedding cake and deliver it for homosexuals, photograph that evil ceremony an endorse and give approval for giving them a license with your signature on the permission papers, you are enabling that sinner and participating in their evil deeds. Be honest , the real reason you would aid their sinful activity is because you cannot stand reproach for the Name and or cause of Christ. You are a stumbling block and not a stepping stone. You would be the one to give that dying alcoholic that final lethal dose of booze while telling him that you were not of this world. .

    • mlydick1 says:

      Hey Gilbert – thanks for the feedback.

      I’m reminded of what God actually says in Hosea—–for I desire mercy, over sacrifice. The NLT says, “I want you to show love, not offer sacrifices. I want you to know me more than I want burnt offerings”. In the parable of the Good Samaratin, the Priest (someone who was on their way to the temple to serve, who had waited all year to serve and only had one chance) didn’t help the “sinner” (Samaratins were the “homosexuals” of their cultural time….the worst of the worst) because it would be perceived as enabling a “sinful culture”.

      Jesus confirms his Father’s thoughts form Hosea. I want compassion – not sacrifice.

      Paul says that WHILE WE WERE ENEMIES of God (still sinners) God reconciled us to himself:

      “For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!”

      The people you are saying we are “aiding” in their sinful activity – have ALREADY been reconciled to God. Think on that, from waaaaaay up there where you are.

      Question for personal reflection:

      How many “samaratins” have you touched in the past 90 days? The past 6 months? Year.

      How many hookers, tax collectors, drug addicts – or homeless people have you shown merci to, as opposed to people you have judged in your heart, online, or verbally with someone else?

      We have to be careful here Gilbert. Jesus says that many who say they “knew him” are left behind when he comes back.

      • Veritacity says:

        Great point Gilbert. It seems that myldick1 has a pretty skewed version of the concept of biblical mercy. You see, sin always destroys…bodies, children, families, souls, etc. myldick1 thinks it is merciful to encourage and enable others to continue in their destructive lifestyles, which, if not repented of, will ultimately land them in hell. Gilbert, this all stems from myldick1’s evident Universalism. He seems to think that everyone is already saved because of Christ’s death on the cross. He uses a beautiful passage of Scripture (Romans 5:1) in a very ugly and damaging way (out of context). The issue of course, is his misunderstanding of the identity of the ‘We’ in Romans 5:1. myldick1 would be able to correctly identify this ‘We’ if he would bother to read Romans 4 (which precedes 5:1) as well as verse 2 of Chapter 5 (which follows 5:1). Who are the ‘We’ who are reconciled to God? Oh yeah, it’s not all the world after all, it’s the ones who have access to this grace by their Faith. You see, Jesus did in fact die for the world to pay for our sins and purchase for us the gift of salvation. But the only ones who actually benefit from His gracious act are those who by faith, receive His gift. Beware of false teachers like myldick1, they sound very sweet and their words are smooth. They change the meaning of words. They purposely quote biblical texts out of their contexts. And they lead many unsuspecting astray while doing it.

      • mlydick1 says:

        There is no biblically skewed perspective of mercy. There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Paul himself though confesses – that he continues to sin. He “buffets his own body” (literally means “I box my own body” because he can’t do the things he wants to do (live a perfect holy life) and does the things he doesn’t want to do (sin).” This is the author of Romans Wade. A man who understands that apart from Grace – we are like “menstrual pads/ dirty rags”.

        You’ve made Grace ugly. You reserve it for the people who look good – and appear to live perfect lives. But here are some interesting statistics as it relates to sin – in the Evangelical Pastoral world:

        81% of pastors surveyed said they didn’t have a good marriage.

        72% of pastors surveyed said they only read the bible when they are preparing a sermon for work.

        38% of pastors surveyed said they were divorced, or currently in the process of divorce.

        26% of pastors surveyed said they had been in an ongoing affair, or had a one time sexual encounter with a parishoner.

        50% of pastors who are married, have marriages that end in divorce.

        40% of pastors confess to having an extramarital affair (outside of their church) since becoming a pastor.

        Most studies show that 60-80% of those who become pastors – are no longer pastors 10 years after their ministry begins.

        The studies that I’m reading also show that “Pastors who tend to be very educated seem to have the ability to embark in sin on Saturday and preach the Word on Sunday without thinking anything is wrong”. (intothyword.o rg).

        Of 1050 pastors surveyed in pastors conferences, 78% (825) had been forces to resign from a church at least once.

        That said – you’ll forgive me if I question what you’re saying in relation to our Christ – our Messiah. Statistically – it’s usually the guy screaming, “you’re all GOING TO HELL” the loudest in our faith, who are leading the way silently in their own secret lives. It’s the guy at the AIDS clinic….the nurse who whispers to the girls in the waiting room of the abortion clinic, “God loves you and forgives you”…it’s the person who touches the unclean dirty sinning Samaratin who wins the prize, and finishes the race.”

        Most of the time Jesus was talking to the “Pastors” of his day, he was yelling at them and telling them to get their lives together…that they had missed the message they were entrusted to teach.

        I love you man – let’s stop here. I see you post again, I’ll take it down. Let’s leave what’s up here, up, for other’s to decide.

  7. Dee WW says:

    “Ergo- I’m fascinated by someone who is an official representative of the United States Government not resigning from her position,”

    Who? Kim Davis? She isn’t a representative of the United States Government at all. In any event, she’s only being asked to perform a clerical action, not “approve” anything, and there are work arounds available to avoid having to do it herself. Although, it’s difficult to believe she wasn’t specifically targeted since there are numerous other clerks offices close by where they could have gotten the licenses, yet supposedly the couples weren’t able to get ‘married’ for several months specifically because of her. There are a lot of problems with this whole fiasco and not just with Kim Davis’s own actions.

    And the bakers aren’t refusing to provide services for gays or bake them cakes – they do not turn them away at the door saying “we don’t serve your kind here” as you seem to be implying with your comments about Paul making tents – that is not factually accurate. They do draw the line at performing an action which requires them to actually participate in a same-sex wedding, which they consider to be a sinful action. You seem to be suggesting that people should participate in what they consider to be sin to supposedly share the gospel? How does that work, exactly? How would that not confuse the message?

    These bakers and business owners are being specifically targeted to put them out of business. Witness what happened to the Canadian who went ahead and provided services and they found out he personally did not approve of same-sex marriage – he received numerous threats until he finally felt forced to refund the money. And your comments wouldn’t just apply just to bakers – business owners such as photographers and wedding chapels have also been targeted. So you would suggest that the photographers should go to the same-sex “wedding” photographing and participating in it, asking the couple to kiss and engage in other intimidate poses for the pictures? And this could be a means of sharing the gospel? Performing the weddings themselves if you run a wedding chapel? Should churches start performing these weddings to get them in the door, like you suggested the bakers? That’s the same logic.

    • mlydick1 says:

      Jesus response to you Dee:

      “27 “Listen, all of you. Love your enemies. Do good to those who hate you. 28 Pray for the happiness of those who curse you; implore God’s blessing on those who hurt you.

      29 “If someone slaps you on one cheek, let him slap the other too! If someone demands your coat, give him your shirt besides. 30 Give what you have to anyone who asks you for it; and when things are taken away from you, don’t worry about getting them back. 31 Treat others as you want them to treat you.

      32 “Do you think you deserve credit for merely loving those who love you? Even the godless do that! 33 And if you do good only to those who do you good—is that so wonderful? Even sinners do that much! 34 And if you lend money only to those who can repay you, what good is that? Even the most wicked will lend to their own kind for full return!

      35 “Love your enemies! Do good to them! Lend to them! And don’t be concerned about the fact that they won’t repay. Then your reward from heaven will be very great, and you will truly be acting as sons of God: for he is kind to the unthankful and to those who are very wicked.

      36 “Try to show as much compassion as your Father does.

      37 “Never criticize or condemn—or it will all come back on you. Go easy on others; then they will do the same for you.[c] 38 For if you give, you will get! Your gift will return to you in full and overflowing measure, pressed down, shaken together to make room for more, and running over. Whatever measure you use to give—large or small—will be used to measure what is given back to you.”

      That’s out of God’s mouth. God incarnate.

      The baker’s weren’t participating in a same sex wedding. They were making a cake. They weren’t standing there saying, “Hey – you know, I hate homo’s and you’re probably going to hell for this – but let’s roll the spiritual dice and you two hitched!” They made a cake.

      They made wedding cakes for people who were living together, having sex – who were getting married.
      They made wedding cakes for people who were cheating on their taxes.
      They made wedding cakes for people who were selling and distributing drugs.
      They made wedding cakes for people who were conducting abortions.
      They made wedding cakes for people who were habitually watching and supporting the pornography industry.
      They made wedding cakes for people who were already cheating on their significant other.

      Dee – everyone that walked through those bakery doors- that wasn’t a born again believer – they were sinning. There are no levels to sin. No striations or gradations. They agreed when they opened those doors to sell cakes, that they would sell cakes to everyone according to the law of the country they lived in. That included non-discriminatory laws relating to the LGBT community.

      I live not too far from Woolworths in Greensboro – where the first “sit in” for Black people took place. Did you know down here, people thought blacks weren’t human? They thought they were “cursed by God”, and the laws of grace didn’t apply to them. People thought they were just a little above the animals. Christians used scripture to justify why we shouldn’t serve them where white people were eating. There’s a lot of that vibe here going on – which is equally fascinating.

      Here’s what people missed from the article, Dee. The world hates us.

      I’ll say it again.

      The world – hates us. They’re never going to accept us. Or him. They were targeted? Yeah…….duh. They’re going to target churches? Um, yeah……..duh. Wake up – it’s going to get a lot worse. We will have the abomination of desolation in Jerusalem before it’s over.

      Here’s a news flash – everyone is going to be targeted. They are going to test us – “will you judge me…..or extend God’s grace to me?”

      We, as a Western culture, have failed Him.

      Here’s what didn’t happen, Dee.

      The other churches in the area didn’t support the bakery. They could have all gotten together and said, “Hey WE WANT YOU TO BAKE 50 CAKES FOR US A WEEK FOR OUR SERVICES”. They didn’t.

      “Confuse the message?” There’s no confusion. Christ has died for all. His forgiveness applies to all.

      Did you know that in Judaism, eating with someone in public who was a sinner was condoning their sin? It was paramount to baking a cake for a gay wedding. Guess where Jesus was 1/2 the time in the New Testament….

      Hmmmmm. 😉

      • Nick says:

        You completely dodged and never answered her question about photographers. Do you honestly think a Christian photographer should participate in a same-sex wedding, taking intimate photo’s of a couple?

      • mlydick1 says:

        Hi Nick – this is a great question. It’s a great “straw-man” argument technique. For those of you not familiar with the phrase “straw-man” argument – it means you create a situation that forces the person you’re asking the question to , to make your point with an imaginary scenario….a “what if” question. It’s the kind of questioning technique the Pharisees tried on Jesus to trick him into saying something they could use to convict him of heresy.

        I’ll respond the way Jesus might have, Nick….

        Question: Nick – have you ever done a job for someone – that benefited them financially or otherwise, and that person was a non-believer?

        Question: Nick – have you ever paid someone who did a job for you – that benefited them and their lifestyle – that was a non-believer?

        You answer first, and then I’ll answer. . . 🙂

      • Veritacity says:

        Hmmmmm indeed False teacher 😉 . It seems that myldick1 would have been one of the multitude bowing to the idol of Neb on the Plains of Shinar, and would have likely been critical of Daniel for not obeying the order of Darius (a Governor, no less) and praying anyway. I can just see myldick1 in the group of religious Priests are they threaten Peter and John to no longer teach in Jesus’ Name. myldick1 would have been incensed at the response of the Apostles when they replied, ““Whether it is right in the sight of God to listen to you more than to God, you judge.” You see, myldick1 doesn’t seem to understand Jesus’ instructions to the baptized tax-collectors and soldiers in Luke 3. His instructions were for them to practice their profession in accordance to God’s revealed will as found in His Word. PS: His forgiveness applies to those who repent and receive Him by faith.

      • mlydick1 says:

        Jesus ate with prostitutes, and tax collectors. In judaism as I’m taught and from what I read in the New Testament , this was considered ‘condoning’ sin. Please explain how what I’m saying is different? Paul says to do everything we can, short of sinning ourselves – to save others. He says not to judge the world – but to come together and share that Christ has reconciled all of mankind to himself. To present the message of the cross. That’s all.

  8. Ron says:

    I get the overall point and mostly agree. However, there are some issues I have.

    You said – “I think, if Paul was making tents (as he was known to do) he wouldn’t turn someone away in Greece for being gay.”

    The bakers did not turn away away customers for being gay. They refused to bake a CERTAIN cake for a CERTAIN event.

    The more accurate question would be, ‘I think, if Paul was making tents (as he was known to do) WOULD he turn away a person wanting a tent to house child sex slaves?’

    • mlydick1 says:

      The even more accurate question has to be filtered through the lens of scripture:

      ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, or
      Our good works are as filthy rags

      Ron – you’re doing what the Pharisees did. They added gradations to sin. Your sin is worse than mine (OH LORD THANK YOU THAT I’M NOT AS BAD AS THAT SINNER OVER THERE while giving the tithe).

      Paul – whose authority came from Christ – wrote Romans. Who said that we were forgiven WHILE we were enemies of God. There is no distinction in God’s eyes between someone who has not accepted him who has purchased a tent and cheats on their taxes (or watches pornography habitually) and someone who purchases a tent for housing child sex slaves. You don’t know what’s in someone’s heart – or where they are in their journey with God. How close they are to making an acceptance decision for him. We do know that God forgave EVERYONE – not just you.

      Christ says there’s only one way the world will know we are his followers. Our love for one another. I get what you’re saying – and in the flesh it makes total sense. It’s just not scriptural. If your’e doing business with ANYONE that isn’t saved/born again – you’re enabling and endorsing sin as you’ve described.

      Thanks for the comment!

      • Renewed says:

        Actually, the gradation you speak of is a matter of conscience. If you are a designer and are asked to make a porn site or a site about new age or other religion, would you do it? Would you criticize a Christian who feels this act is against their conscience? I do believe this lady was hired for a job and if she doesn’t do it she should have just been fired, not thrown in jail. She was standing up for what she believes is her Christian duty, whether you or I agree with it or not. This is not a black or white matter. She is a new believer and it is perhaps those who have been believers longer, who should be coming alongside of her and gently reproving, not publicly setting ourselves apart from what is perceived as “her” error and ignorance. What is the true purpose of your rant?

      • mlydick1 says:

        I believe that we can follow this logical debate tactic to it’s conclusion “renewed”. Your tactic is something called “in ad infinitum”. It means arguing something to an infinite, and often ridiculous conclusion.

        NO – you shouldn’t make a porn site for a porn company. That said, over 75% of male evangelicals say they watch pornography on an ongoing basis. That means – despite your argument – most Christian men are condoning- and supporting a billion dollar industry that glorifies sexual violence, and sexual slavery. You need only call any hotel in Las Vegas and ask them what happens when a “Church Conference” comes to town – and how the pornography channels are turned on in all the rooms when all the Christian guys get there. Should we support that industry? No. Do we? Yes. In ways that are much worse than 1 guy building the website.

        Most of the people web designers are making websites for – are making it for sinners. Website owners who use the funds to cheat on their taxes. Website owners who use their profits to pay prostitutes, or solicit sex online.

        I’ve thought about this – and what would I do if I were the bakers? I’d make a generic wedding cake. No figurines on top – no text or writing on the cake. Christ doesn’t hold me responsible for making cakes. He tells me to do “everything as though doing it unto God”. If I make the best cakes in the city, and people come to me and buy my cakes – it glorifies him.

        I can make a website “template” package for someone. I can make the best “templates” in the industry. I won’t fill them in with porn – but I can make designs that anyone can take, and customize to do what they want with. That’s the more believable argument. That’s more “real world”. The world will always take the things we make – as a result of our gifts from the creator – and satan transforms them into ugly, hurtful things.

        There is only one way to avoid this – to not buy or sell anything to anyone who isn’t in the church. This was never taught though – not once by Christ or any apostle. What we are told is to get along with everyone – to not judge unbelievers (but to judge believers in our respective bodies), we’re told to give what belongs to Ceaser to Ceaser. We’re told to pray for all of our leaders- all of them – because God put them there. And we’re told when it comes down to death, or Jesus – we choose death…but that in 99% of the biblical cases, God makes/made a way where there was no way.

        If someone comes to you, and says, “I want you to make a website for me, and I make porn”, are you willing to tell me that you wouldn’t have a 3 hour conversation with that person about Jesus? That God hadn’t brought this person to you – someone who was desperately in need of His Grace – to talk to you that you might be ready to share your argument like Paul said we were to do?. What if every time that guy called you, and wanted to discuss his website idea, every conversation was started with an opening prayer. What if we trusted that at some point in the conversation – just short of making the Porn website – that God would rescue us like Shad, Meesh, and Abby in the fire – and provide an answer to prayer? It’s the same scenario you propose – but I propose that God brings us those from the desert to the light. Otherwise, why be a city on a hill? Why be salty? If not to attract people who want porn sites built…who want to enter into homosexual marriage?

        Who will tell them about Jesus? Other porn site guys? Other gay couples?………

        Where do we agree, us two? That yes – she should have stepped down. Or asked for her name to be taken off of the certificate. She didn’t – and the judge put her in jail. The judge put her in jail, because he said that if he posted a fine, the “outside groups” would pay it, and she’d keep breaking the law and denying certificates (which is sinful, and goes against what Christ taught). She didn’t do everything in her power to get along with everyone else (which is bilical) and instead spread a message of hate and judgement to sinners – instead of spreading a message of the Cross. That Christ reconciled all men to himself, and apart from him we can do nothing to attain eternal life”. That’s our message. Wade would have us all believe our message is, “You are all sinners. We are all to be holy and pure, and when all is said and done – if you have more good points than bad points and went to church and were a good person -you might get in (this is what the Jehovah’s Witnesses believe btw). She missed an opportunity when all eyes were on her, and behaved more like the freak show baptists from Florida who protest at dead soldier’s funerals. So yes – for that I criticize her. Shame on her.

        No one came alongside her. There was no “gentle nudge”. There is if anything in this country a rush (I say this as an EVangelical saved by Grace in Christ alone perspective) to spread judgement of sin versus the message of the Cross. Christ died, one for all – and in him we can have eternal life. That’s our role. He changes hearts and points out the sin in people’s lives – not us. We can’t do it. As a group – we sin as much or more than any other group or religion. Statistically its undeniable.

        I love you, brother. You’re in-Him, and I’m in-Him. God may show me in the future that I’m wrong here, but as for now after all this I don’t think I am. Are there grey areas – sure. But you and I agree on the things we can’t disagree on, and that’s why I’ll see you up there/down in the new here.

      • Veritacity says:

        Once again myldick1, your Universalism is false because it is based upon the dangerous practice of building doctrine on texts removed from their context. The ‘we’ (ones forgiven) are those who have appropriated the gift of His forgiveness by Faith. Romans 4, Romans 5:2, Ephesians 2………………

      • mlydick1 says:

        Hey Pastor Wade.

        I don’t preach Universalism. I’ve never said we should endorse sin. (please quote me if I did).

        I am a sinner- saved by grace. My redemption comes from the Son of the One True God – the great I Am – whose coming was foretold for generations in the holy and Living Word. The Word came – and was flesh among us. He gave his life for us – and made an atonement for the sins of mankind- for all eternity. If we believe in our hearts – and confess with our mouths – that Jesus Christ is Lord – than our names will be written in the Lamb’s book of life. Our capacity to believe in him comes from the Father – the faith we have to believe is a gift from him. There is nothing we can do to add to, or take away from our Salvation.

        That said – you’re my brother – and I love you. But you’re also being disobedient to scripture when you write things that divide us. Your speech is hateful – and not seasoned with salt, and light – or grace. You throw words around like “false prophet” as though I’m teaching something that isn’t inline with scripture – or Christ’s own actions.

        Here’s what I said, and wrote – so you can’t miss the point of the article.

        Kim Davis worked for the Government. For Caeser. She took an oath to uphold the laws of the Constitutions while she worked there.

        When the laws changed – she didn’t do what you are saying she should have done. Step down.

        I’m saying that she didn’t have to go to jail – or step down. She could have asked for her name to not be on the form.

        She could have continued working there, and been light in the darkness. Everyone that came to that place would have known she was a Christian…and what she believed.

        She didn’t. She tried to change the laws of this secular country – and impose a “foolishness which confounds the wise” on a non-believing public. We’re never, not once – told to do that in any of the Old, or new Testament.

        The point I was making – Pastor – was simply this – and something you probably miss because you don’t work in the public. You work with people who are believers – or people who at least tell you they are believers. Those of us that work in the real world understand the following point…..

        If your’e doing business in ‘the world’, you are endorsing sin according to your definitions and interpretations as outlined in your comments.

        Every cake any Christian baker made, for any couple that wasn’t a born-again-beliving-couple, was guilty of the thing they swore they wouldn’t do with gay people. That’s it – and there’s no wiggling around it (I believe you know this in your heart).

        Every marriage certificate that Kim Davis signed in the past – and handed to a non-born-again-bible-believing-couple (let’s say a male and female Buddhist for example) was endorsing sin (according to your definitions and interpretations as outlined in your comments).

        Christ never asked us to change the laws of a country. He said we were strangers in a strange land – and the people of the land would want to persecute us….kill us even. Hated us at the very least. None of my scriptures were taken out of context.

        I’d encourage you Pastor to go through every interaction Jesus had with a non-believing person in the New Testament – and compare it to every interaction Jesus had with a Jewish scholar, or Pharisee – a “teacher of the law / Pastor”. You’ll see in EVERY INSTANCE THAT HIS INTERACTION WITH THE TEACHERS/PASTORS OF HIS DAY WAS FILLED WITH JUDGEMENT AND REBUKE AND EVERY INTERACTION WITH A NONBELIEVER WAS FILLED WITH GRACE, MERCY, AND COMPASSION.

        Where you and I agree (and I’ll close with this)

        Gay couples shouldn’t be married. Pastors shouldn’t have to marry gay people. Pastors who marry gay people, are acting heretically, and will be judged someday.

        We are called to come away from the world, to “not conform to the patterns of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind”. Christians who say they are Christians, but continue to indulge in personal repetitive public sin are not Christians, as Paul teaches, “should we sin, that God’s grace may increase? Perish the thought!”. God is ultimately as Holy – as he is Merciful. Isaiah says, “Woe is me, for I am a man of unclean lips” and falls prostrate before a Holy God.

        Our interactions with each other, in the body – are to be in full accountability to one another. We’re called to judge each other as believers. As iron sharpens iron. Peter judges Ananias and Sapphira, for lying – for example. Christ is returning, and wants his bride to be holy, and pure. Not out of legal obligation – or that any of us can add to the Grace that has wiped our debt clean in Him. But out of love – because we love the one who loved us first. We are no longer slaves to sin – but slaves to Christ. In the body – we all belong to each other – and each other’s gifts belong to the other. For in our unity – and in our love for Him, as shown through our love for one another, He is glorified. It is only our love for one another though that the world judges the purity of our faith – and the power of it. Not our biblical knowledge, or judgement of the world.

        Where we disagree:

        I believe as Paul said – that we are to become all things to all people – in an effort to reach them as they are dying. I believe that those who are not In Him – are headed towards eternal damnation. Popular Atheist Penn Gilette says ” if you have the keys to eternal life, and you believe I’m going to hell forever – and you don’t try to save me, you must really hate me. ” In response, Paul says,

        (1 Cor 9) “…When I am with those whose consciences bother them easily, I don’t act as though I know it all and don’t say they are foolish; the result is that they are willing to let me help them. Yes, whatever a person is like, I try to find common ground with him so that he will let me tell him about Christ and let Christ save him. 23 I do this to get the Gospel to them and also for the blessing I myself receive when I see them come to Christ.”

        Further on,

        “Whether, then, you eat or drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. 32) Give no offense either to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God; [in other words, adapt as much as you can in non-sinful ways] 33) just as I also please all men in all things, not seeking my own profit, but the profit of the many, that they may be saved. [That’s the same as 9:22, “I have become all things to all men, that I may by all means save some.” Then comes the answer to our question, in 11:1.] Be imitators of me, just as I also am of Christ.”

        Paul is saying – we should do EVERYTHING WE CAN TO SAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE HEADED TO HELL….short of sinning ourselves. This is what Christ did…we are to be imitators of Christ. What are we to tell non-believers – that like Johnathan Edwards said – EVERYONE IS GOING TO BURN IN HELL FOREVER? Is that we are are called to preach to the world?

        No.

        “I preach Christ crucified; a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles”.

        We’re called to preach reconciliation. People know they are sinning. They’re watching us to see if we love one another, or not. After reading what you wrote to another believer (me) someone would clearly come away with the understanding that Pastor – you don’t love me…and they’re probably shake their heads and walk away confirming in their heart there is no Christ…no messiah.

        I forgive you though. Maybe Jesus will use this to reveal that you should do everything in your power, short of sinning- to win those who are going to perish, for him. Maybe not. Maybe you’re one of the “Lord, Lord’s”. I dont’ know.

  9. Aaron Davis says:

    I guess my main issue her is that “WE THE PEOPLE” are Caesar. The “Supreme” court cannot make law, if my understanding of the Constitution is correct. Also, I left the “Faith” about 10 years ago, because really, what is the difference between a “Christian” and “The World”? Christians watch the same shows, listen to the same music, use the same language/profanity, agree with the same morals, so really, what is the god-damn difference? Please tell me! A relationship? I wonder how many “Christians” today actually read your sole called “Holy Scriptures”? How many of your actually spend time in prayer? You preach so much about “love” and “fellowship” but you can’t even agree amongst yourselves?Eat! Drink! Be Merry! Tomorrow, everything dies! A magic “prayer” won’t change that.

    • mlydick1 says:

      Hey Aaron,

      Thanks for commenting.

      There is a difference between “The World”, and Christianity. I never brought that into question. What I did question in this article, was the belief Kim Davis had . . . that somehow the government she served inside of (as a secular “Ceaser” job was somehow obligated to make sure her religious beliefs took precedent over the secular laws of the country. She had every option to step down, or resign – and not be involved at the licensing department. Her reaction was uncharacteristic of – and out of keeping with – the things we’re taught by Christ and the behavior of the earliest members of the Christian church.

      Aaron – I’d also like to encourage you. That even Jesus himself said that “many” people who said they were Christians, in the end – would be left behind. He uses the word “many” I think to emphasize the enormity of the number of people who thought they were doing it (in word only) and weren’t (in deed, actually). There are people who are followers – true believers. I’ve met them. I like to think I’m one of them. They’re out there. My prayer and hope is that you’ll simply provide Christ a chance – an opportunity to have a relationship with you in reality. You need only simply ask him to show himself to you…and open an invitation (with sincerity) for him to move in your life. This is the one “dare challenge” he always accepts. Please make it to him – I love you brother – and thanks for being on the journey with us.

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